UC Berkley Accelerator: How to Build an Accelerator or Incubator

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Hey, welcome to another episode of Making Billions, I'm your host, Ryan Miller and today I have my dear friend Caroline Winnett. 

Caroline is the executive director of Berkeley SkyDeck, UC Berkeley's startup accelerator. At SkyDeck she leads a program that hosts over 200 companies per year. In 2022 she launched the Berkeley SkyDeck fund, a VC fund investing in SkyDeck startups. 

So what does this mean? Well, this means that Caroline understands how to find, analyze and accelerate a startup to eye popping returns for investors, all supported by the talent pool of UC Berkeley.

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[THE GUEST]: Caroline is the executive director of Berkeley SkyDeck, UC Berkeley's startup accelerator.

[THE HOST]: Ryan Miller is an Angel investor in technology and energy. 

Transcript

Ryan Miller  

My name is Ryan Miller, and for the past 15 years, I've helped hundreds of people to raise millions of dollars for their funds and for their startups. If you're serious about raising money, launching your business, or taking your life to the next level, this show will give you the answers so that you too can enjoy your pursuit of Making Billions. Let's get into it. 

Ryan Miller  

You know, after teaching 1000s of people how to launch a fund, I often got asked by people in venture if starting an accelerator is a good idea to secure deals. Well, join me in my next guest as she explains how the UC Berkeley accelerator is gearing up to be the best in North America, if not, the world, all this and more coming right now. Here we go. 

Ryan Miller  

Hey, welcome to another episode of Making Billions, I'm your host, Ryan Miller and today I have my dear friend Caroline Winnett. Caroline is the executive director of Berkeley SkyDeck, UC Berkeley's startup accelerator. At SkyDeck she leads a program that hosts over 200 companies per year. In 2022 she launched the Berkeley SkyDeck fund, a VC fund investing in SkyDeck startups. So what does this mean? Well, this means that Caroline understands how to find, analyze and accelerate a startup to eye popping returns for investors, all supported by the talent pool of UC Berkeley. So Caroline, welcome to the show.

Caroline Winnett  

Hey, Ryan, great to be with you today. 

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, it's great to have you. You know, I've been fascinated with a lot of these university accelerator programs, and at UC Berkeley, this has got to be one of the absolute best. With such a premier school behind you, I'm excited to really get into what you've created and how to do that. I've helped a lot of people, couple 1000 on launching a fund and I always hear this idea of saying, we got to build an accelerator this. This is our ticket, that's our secret sauce, and, and I thought, well, yeah, if you can do it, but that's another full time job, and it's not easy, and you've pulled it off. So I can't wait to really chop that up. So let's jump right into it. So building an accelerator, I mean, this is a whole thing a lot of fund managers want to do, or maybe they want to support in one and just find a good one that maybe they can bolt themselves on and maybe be a funding partner at the end. But how do people who are looking into this sector, what have you found? I mean, you've been doing this a while. What have you found to be some of those, those attributes that can really help people put some early points on the board? What would you say? 

Caroline Winnett  

Yeah, sure. So a couple things. So first of all, you can't accelerate startups unless you have something really meaningful and valuable to offer them. And that's not just you or a couple of buddies, it's a network. So unless you have that network already built, it's going to be pretty tough. You know, what, what do we do at a startup accelerator, day in and day out? In a way, it's pretty simple, here's a founder that needs to know something. Here's the person that knows that thing, facilitate that engagement and make sure it goes really well on both sides. So you got to have the people that know the thing, right? So, so that's the network you have to have and the second thing is that I think it's, it's, see, first of all, working with startups is so fun, right? Everybody wants to do it. I do have the world's most fun job I do, but it really is extremely hard work. It's a service business, right? It's not a product business, I can't just throw up some workshops and PowerPoints and links and send my founders there, and voila, they're accelerated. It's really sitting down with them, getting to know them, getting to know who should they talk to? What resources do they need? And everybody on the team has to be really committed to a pretty intensive service mindset and there's no shortcuts there. There's no replacing that with a YouTube video supplement with YouTube video, you absolutely can't replace it. So I think it's hard to really anticipate just how much manual labor and love it really takes.

Ryan Miller  

That's brilliant. And what would you say, from your perspective, and it's okay to be biased on this one in finance, we usually try to steer away from it, but sometimes it's okay. I think I know your answer, but I'd love for you to really express what would you say is the benefits of working with an accelerator that's bolted onto such a prestigious university, like UC Berkeley, versus maybe just a private one put on by people. What would you say the advantages of joining one that's bolted to such a prestigious university would be?

Caroline Winnett  

Great question. So it goes back to that first thing I mentioned. We automatically, because we're a Berkeley program, we automatically have a network of 45,000 brilliant and talented and motivated students, 2000 brilliant, talented, award winning, world class faculty, and nearly 600,000 living Berkeley alums like myself around the world who go, oh, but you got something going on at Berkeley that's a startup accelerator. Let me help and that network. I mean, I'm going to argue right here, if anybody knows a more a larger, more expert, more powerful and more engageable network than UC Berkeley alums. I haven't heard of them, so it's really our superpower and and use the word bolted on. I want to make clear that Berkeley SkyDeck is run by Berkeley. We're not a partner, we're not an affiliate, we actually are a program of UC Berkeley. I work for UC Berkeley, as does my staff. We have .berkeley.edu emails. We're fully run by Berkeley, and that really is our superpower.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, well said, and thank you for clarifying that point is to say, no, this is fully integrated. It's not on the outside. It's not an appendage, necessarily, not in a separate sense, but it is part of the body of the award winning faculty, and so you get a lot of that access, and you're spot on. Doing a lot of these things, especially in high finance, from accelerators to investment funds and everything in between. This is really a game of access, isn't it, and access to the right people, and so tying into the right funds, the right fund manager, the right accelerator, the right one. I mean, I'll let you folks around the world decide what that means, but to me, in my opinion, it means the right one is the one that can get you in touch with top, top talent, that can guide you right. As we say, get rid of the noise, get right to the signal and some of the best professionals in the world, they tend to go to universities, don't they, and so you get the access to that. So to me that would be the right accelerator, one that could put me in touch with people that my issues, that I don't understand. They could do it in their sleep. I mean, I can't think of a better place than an accelerator tied to Berkeley to do it, I love it. Now, it's not enough to put some early points on the board, we know this is a relationship game. This is an access game, and those who provide the best relationships and access tend to be the best, in my opinion. But there's also downside risk when you're starting these things, whether you're starting an accelerator, you want to get into an accelerator, you want to partner with an accelerator, there are some downside risks that can really cause you a lot of heartache, if not completely wipe you out from all of your wonderful experience. What would you say are some pieces of advice you can tell people on how to not lose in this sector.

Caroline Winnett  

So I would say, in general, don't start when, unless you really have those two things. You have a network that you can engage right, not just LinkedIn connections, but people that you can engage in a meaningful way and provide an experience to them because, you know, you can't go out unless you have a heck of a budget. You're not going to go out and all of a sudden pay living wage salaries to, you know, 1000 brilliant people, you know, you need to give them a reason to engage. So you need the network a reason to engage, and then you have to really make that engagement happen. So, so go into it with eyes wide open just how momentous a challenge that can be. So I'd say that's number one, and that then number two, coming up with a thesis that isn't supported by your resources or your network, right? So are you going super narrow? Are you just a therapeutics accelerator for Life Science, right? Or are you just robots? Are you just blockchain that can work really, really well, right, that's that's going to be a certain size of a program that could work, but it could be too limited. The other mistake is going too broad. So at Berkeley Skydeck, we are actually fortunate that we can go super broad. We were agnostic as to industry, we take companies in any industry. How in the world can we do that with a staff of nine people? That's not possible is it? Well, it is possible, because of the 45,000 students, 1000s of faculty, nearly 600,000 alums who, no matter what, the startup needs, advice about technically, anything from quantum to to, you know, taking enzymes and turning them to new enzymes, whatever you want, there is an expert, a world class expert, either on or off campus, in our network.

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. I know you and I, we've spoken offline when we talk about my ethos of the three R's, reputation, relationships and results. And I think understanding those, the those three R's, and investing in those really also help. Whether you're a fund accelerator, those really help to do that. Now, from you on the management side and really looking at you're kind of, you're overseeing and you're helping these startups. You didn't say this, but I will is to be investable. I take the standpoint of an investor, there's consumer, there's all kinds of people that will enjoy what comes from these startup companies, but from an investor position you're overseeing and helping these companies to turn into something that could be a pretty good investment for a lot of the capital providers waiting on the other side. How important is, is really capturing and following data? Where do you guys sit on data? That's hard to do, and the reason why I ask is because I know this is not an easy question. There's not a lot of data for startups, especially if you're mining asteroids in outer space or some really wild stuff, but where do you guys sit on the data trend. Where do you sit on that spectrum?

Caroline Winnett  

So we think of ourselves as very data driven. We try to do as much data informed decisions as possible. So that's data about our own founders, about our own success. We, you know, as investors and directors of a program, we've got our little you know, computational processes in our brain, which are often really correct. I mean, it is amazing how well the brain can parse data and come up with patterns that are they're based on reality. But at the same time, we try to not be beholden to stereotypes, be beholden to fashionable trends and investing so if. You. So for example, if you come to Berkeley SkyDeck, you'll see a wide range of ages in our badge, right? We're not going after the, you know, two recent grads and PowerPoint guys, although we do have them, of course, we do have some of those. But we really try to leave any biases or ill informed heuristics at the door when we're picking our startups, because you can really get hammered by your own patterns if you don't take really good care to make sure that you're not being influenced by your own poorly driven data. So we try to do that as much as we can. 

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, brilliant. So following that so you're saying, yeah, we have some pretty sophisticated models. I mean, you're at Berkeley, so that I'm sure is in no short supply. But then also, we're saying, but there's a point where maybe there's not precedent for certain things, and we can't just rely on data, and you do have to roll the dice and take that educated shot on launching the business, is that, is that what I'm hearing?

Caroline Winnett  

That's right, and at the stage at which we accept startups is very early, there's not a lot of proof. There's very little proof. There's, there's, in some cases, no revenue, in most cases, very little revenue, very little customer development. So we're taking a bet on the team and sort of the way we think about what's the right startup for SkyDeck, for our acceleration program, is kind of simple in a way, if we take this startup and give it our $200,000 investment, our six months of program, our network, our resources, all you know, the Berkeley, the Berkeley superpower, will they be able to successfully, successfully raise a seed round for professional investors. So that varies a lot, depending on is this life science? Is this hard science?  Is this enterprise software? Is this consumer, so, but it's a do we think we can get them from where they are to that successful fundraise with our time resources and our attention in six months? 

Ryan Miller  

So six month course, and how can anyone apply at any time? Or how does your intake process work?

Caroline Winnett  

So we have two batches a year. They start in May and they start in November. So applications open around January of each year and around July of each year, and that program goes from May or November for the nearly six months. And we are open to anyone from anywhere, any school. Of course, Berkeley founders are a priority as a Berkeley program. However, where there's plenty of room in this batch, we take about 20 in the accelerator program. So we have room for not just Berkeley, because of that batch size, every six months. So we always have a mix of Berkeley founders, founders from our sister UC campuses, Berkeley faculty, and then founders from around the world.

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. And is there an average placement size, or is that just determined at the end? What should entrepreneurs expect? 

Caroline Winnett  

They're typically going to our demo day. They're typically raising, you know, I'd say their first seed round, or, you know, significant pre seed round, depending on, again, the type of company, right, and the industry and how much capital is needed, but it's pretty typical for what you would expect to see from a startup accelerator playgrounds.

Ryan Miller  

Okay, perfect. Now, you mentioned earlier that when we were talking about data, you don't really follow these fad or fashionable ones, so it shows that you guys are looking at the market and the changes and all those things, deciding what's kind of the hot right now versus the steady, consistent, reliable investment profiles. So with that being said, I'm just curious. Let's talk about the market a little bit and what you guys are seeing out there. What are you guys looking at? What are you finding this is relatively exciting right now. 

Caroline Winnett  

So I think I'll say the same thing many accelerators will say, which is, we're looking for founders who can build really useful tools using the new AI resources and capabilities. So what does that mean? There's a lot of hype, but without question, because of what's happening in AI right now, massive game changing companies will be built. There's no question. So we're all putting on our thinking caps and trying to decide who can do that. And it comes down to kind of what it's always come down to, in a way, which is, do we think the founders can build? That they have really very highly developed skills in what they can build. They can build fast and they will accessibly iterate with their customers and potential customers to make that work. This is, you know, sort of the golden rule of investing so, but in terms of what's going on in the market today, I'd say it's even more fun, trying to figure out, you know, which model should they be using, where's the market going? I mean, depending on when this airs, you know, just yesterday there was this massive craze in the market because DeepSeek came on the scene and the markets went crazy, and Nvidia tanked, it's back up today. But it's a golden age of opportunity without question. And it takes, I think so. Um, some pretty strong backbone to stay steady and at least somewhat calm during this time. But I'd say we're more thinking about how exciting it is and how interesting it is, and what can we do at Berkeley SkyDeck to really bring some really important solutions to solve world problems. 

Ryan Miller  

I love that, and, um, we're kindred spirits. I too, want to use my skills to help, I say, upgrade humanity and facilitate in the rise of the rest. You know, I've heard it said, and I'll say it here as well, through AI, I think we're not as far away. And this is a crazy idea, but, you know, it's kind of the world we live in is these moonshots to see a 9 or 10 figure company of one, I don't think we're that far away. I mean, I don't think it's gonna happen tomorrow, but I think you're gonna see with the help of AI. And I think the opening I just announced that they are releasing agents and all these things where these people, there's gonna be some appointment setting and sales vetting and all of these things that people do, graphic design. There's going to be so many things where it's going to be one founder building a 9 or 10 figure market cap company, and it's just Tim or her with AI agents all over the place. 

Caroline Winnett  

It's easy to imagine that right now, with a handful of founders, you know, three or four, half a dozen, that's pretty easy to imagine.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, how cool is that? I look forward to that. So a lot of AI agents looking forward to it and people are, I get hit up all the time. People are saying, hey, they work for, you know, we can get you set up. And AI agents work for about $3 an hour and I was like, holy smokes. I mean, that's really hard to refute that business case. To say one of your biggest cost items is labor costs and reducing it by that much, holy smoke. So this is, this truly is disruptive technology. Now I'm curious, from your perspective, where do you see the market going? What kind of do you guys have particular sectors that do you look at or you favor, or where do you see the future going? What do you guys like?

Caroline Winnett  

So, as I mentioned, we're fortunate. We are industry agnostic, we can take a startup in any industry because, because we can support any industry that said we do have a focus on deep tech, because we are uniquely qualified to do that that's hard to do. We love hard science, we love robotics, we love quantum we love chips. We love enterprise software, where the founders are building something that requires really deep level in computer science and building and coding, right? So that means, usually founders who have been working either in industry for some years and or a PhD and, or, you know, from, from a program where they really learned how to code, and really understand that extremely well. We do have specialized tracks, that doesn't mean these are the only industries that we support, but we recognize that there are industries that need particularly, particular expertise, right? Like, you got an enterprise software company and or you've got a chip company, you need someone who understands the chip industry? So we have a chip track. We have a life science track, of course, that's very unique expertise, Blockchain, FinTech, crypto, climate tech and air and space. So all of those are populated with experts who really deeply understand those industries. And of course, we do lots of enterprise software, lots of AI and kind of everything else, you name it, but we've come to recognize you really need to provide the right guidance to these companies. And because our batch sizes are a nice 20 or so for the accelerator batch, we can really get to know the companies and really guide them towards the expertise they need, the person they need.

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. You've been doing this a while, been knocking up all the points on the board for your successes, and so for people just starting out that are looking in this industry, what are maybe two or three competitive advantages that you can provide our audience today.

Caroline Winnett  

I will say, having been a startup founder myself before I came to SkyDeck, I can't imagine doing what I'm doing without that experience. And it's not just because I understand the journey, you know, cognitively, what it takes, but because I've lived through the journey emotionally, and I'm able to share that experience with the founders. It helps me understand what they're going through holistically. You know, we're not just accelerating startups, we're working with founders as humans, right? Because, as you know, as we all know, doing a startup is a little bit difficult, right? It's, it's 150,000% effort that involves just, not just you, but your family, your partner, your dog and cat, you know, all the people and creatures in your life. It involves you physically, psychically, emotionally, all of that. So having been through that, I'm really glad that I do have that experience as running an accelerator. Does that mean no one should run an accelerator if they haven't been a founder? No, not necessarily, but I really think it does help.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, it does. And how does the when, when someone comes in, where should someone like in your position, where you're bringing people into the program. You're kind of raising them up so you are able to put your focus on them. Where do you, how important is, say, focusing on the founders, what is, I know that's really important to you and to the ethos of this accelerator. How does that fold into taking people from intake to successful launch and demo days and all that? How is the focus on founder ethos, how has that shaped what you guys do?

Caroline Winnett  

Yeah, so we find that the social events are as important as the workshops in the seminars, right? So a successful accelerator will not just coach or teach or provide info, but it will enable the founders to build their own network that's meaningful to them, and one of the most important relationships that they will develop the founders is with each other. Because if you're doing a startup and you're going through this, you know, grueling marathon of startup building. If you have a community around you that's going through the same thing that support can be life changing for a founder. So we're very much in favor of in person. During the pandemic, we were all absolutely miserable, we missed our founders terribly. God, I got sick of Zoom, as we all did. Now we're back to not 100% in person, because the world's changed. And actually there's some good things about Zoom, like us talking today, right here we are, I'm I'm here, you're there. So it's not all bad, but we're huge proponents of lots of in person time, so we require the founders to be there at the beginning of the program and towards the end, and a little bit of remote optional in the middle. But there's, you just can't build relationships over Zoom or remote the way you can in person. So that's a big part of our value system, is come in person and then it, you know, it really depends. Some founders are relatively even keeled, have great support structures at home. You know, their dog is well behaved, or, you know, whatever it is and others really need a lot more help. They come in with imposter syndrome. They have something happen in the middle, they have a family member get sick, a partner leave them, you know. And we, we keep an eye out to try to see, do we know these founders well enough to give them the help that they personally need.

Ryan Miller  

You know, and I love that you put it that way, is we're here to help, you know, very often, building out these things. So if, if you're someone who wants to build one, or someone that wants to enter one, it's a lot of things that go on, and a lot of the focus, at least from say, someone in our position, is to say, okay, we're gonna build this, this ecosystem, and it's going to be this assembly line of startup founders we're ready to take on the world, and we get to raise up these young, younger young adults, but so we focus on what they have to do and what they have to deliver by the end of this program, but I want to flip the mirror on ourselves for a minute. What are the things that you can see that you also that they would expect from you for the program or the accelerator to deliver on? What have you found that your deliverables should be in order to help them be successful?

Caroline Winnett  

Yeah, it's really only two things. First of all, can I connect them to the resources the people that they need to solve their problems, help them grow lunch, etc, etc. Number one, do I care? Do I can they see that I care? Can they see that my staff cares? Can they see that my fund managers care? Right? Do they get a response to every message? Have I told them they can, they can email them, call me anytime, anytime, or text me anytime. I invite all the founders to my home at the beginning of the batch, right? So it's they need to feel that. They need to feel that, right? The staff cares about me, and I'm important.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, you know, I've seen that because now we're getting Gen Z making its way through the university system. Some of them, and some of them work for me too, and they're phenomenal. And I can tell you that me being they always joke Gen X. We're like, we grew up in this like, revolving door of Lord of the Flies and raised on the streets and drinking water from fire hose and so I obviously a product of my generation. And one thing I've noticed, and I personally think this is a very good thing. It's not something I grew up with it was the last point that you talk about is, do you care? And this isn't just accelerators. I think this is how business is done. I think employees and a lot of people are craving deep meaning and deep purpose in everything that they involve themselves with, whether it's school, going to school, higher learning, entering an accelerator, entering the job force, heck, even having a family, if that's for you. But we really they're very focused on and I realize this is broad strokes, is finding purpose and finding meaning. And I don't know about you, Caroline, but that was never discussed when I grew up. They're like, just, just keep it quiet, get your work done, and you'll be fine. But now they're saying, well, yeah, I can do that, but I want to know why. Why do you want me to work so hard. Why should I care? And I was like, You know what? That's a good question to ask. And I find people like yourself who are leading the way, are saying, You know what, we need to demonstrate that we care, because we do, and we need to demonstrate that and and I think, I think we're gonna unpack this in a second here. But how has helping people have a purpose, especially in this market. What have you found as you roll that out and let people know that you care and care enough to have tough talk, but how has folding in that caring culture helped you in helping folks kind of reach the end of the accelerator and launch their business? What have you found?

Caroline Winnett  

One of the things that I tell my founders and and I tell myself, I mean, as the leader of an organization, in a way, my most important job is to give people a compelling and meaningful vision of what SkyDeck is about. Berkeley SkyDeck, and make it interesting, make it purposeful, in that I people care about helping us accomplish that purpose, I'd say we're incredibly lucky at Berkeley SkyDeck because we are inherently a meaningful, purpose driven organization. We're a university, right? We're helping founders bring great solutions to the world, and how we fund them. If folks listening haven't heard, we've done something really, really unusual that as far as I know, no other university has done as of yet, and that is to fund the startups in our acceleration program. When I started the program 10 years ago, UC Berkeley, couldn't do venture capital. That may change in the future, but it certainly wasn't true then. And so to get the funding for the startups, I found a fund manager to launch a private dedicated fund that's the Berkeley SkyDeck fund. That's where the money comes from to invest in our startups, which they do, and they're great fund managers. They're amazing. They're fantastic. But here's what's amazing, the Fund invests $200,000 in each startup for seven and a half percent and for a nice legal agreement with signed by lawyers, the fund manager will donate half of the fund carry to UC Berkeley. That means our moonshot is to find the next Google, Apple, Tesla, etc. And when those companies exit, money comes to fund education. I mean, that is a mission, that's a purpose everybody can get behind. And it gets people excited about we do. Gets the alumni very excited about what, about what we do. It gets people who aren't even Berkeley alums to go. That's a really great thing that you're doing, and I get to work with startups to accomplish that purpose, everybody loves it, so we're very lucky for that. So I tell my founders at your stage, you have the same most important job I do, but you've got a harder job because your company doesn't really exist yet, but you have to come up with a compelling vision storied as to why someone should come and join your cause and make it meaningful and interesting and purposeful, and get super talented people to quit their high paying job at a tech company or move across the world or not go to grad school or whatever it is. But in a way, a founder's job is to get people to join their cause, employees, customers and investors come and join my incredible purpose. It's so exciting, compelling. Give me money, even though I have no proof, join my company, even though I have no customers, become my customer, even though I barely have a product, right. In a way that's their most important job and it's wonderful to see founders out there doing that and achieving that. It's just wonderful to watch. 

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, it's brilliant. Thank you for that and there's never been a better time to bring in that and help to expand Educating the mind, that that is a wonderful mission. Big believer in education myself, so I absolutely love that. And when it comes to acquiring top talent, I know you and I spoke about this offline, and I'd love to get your opinion, because this is really important. When it comes time for acquiring top talent, every startup needs to do it, what, what is required for bringing in key players, top talent for these startups, because that can make or break a startup in the beginning is the right, right people. I'm doing air quotes for those of you that are listening. What have you found is the secret that you can share on bringing in the top talent?

Caroline Winnett  

Yeah, so it's what we were just talking about for sure, right? That you get someone go, wow, that sounds I want to join that mission, that incredible purpose, we're going to do something really important. That's number one. Number two, the network, right? We all sort of come back to network. If you're tapping into talented networks, you're going to tend to get talent. So that's one of the things at SkyDeck, that's of huge value. So one of the things we do is we host, we believe, the largest intern fairs on campus, we host several intern fairs per year. We host about 2000 Berkeley students at those fairs, undergrads, Grads, postdocs for our startups looking for talent and that's a lot of talent, right? And if you got into Berkeley you passed a pretty fine net to get in there, so you've got a great talent network work there. Yeah, and also our advisors. So, so we see sometimes advisors who they've exited, or they've they've retired, semi retired from their nice job, connect with one our founders and go, oh my, I need to join this, this startup, this is amazing. So tap into the right networks, and then try before you buy, maybe do a contract. You're a young company, right? Try before you buy, see if it works out, especially those early founder relationships. Because, as you all know, you've got to, you've got to have those, those first hires, be A++ talent, because then it's, it's way easier to attract more a plus talent.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, I agree. Yeah A players want to work with A players, for sure, and so I think you're just to distill. I think what you're saying is getting talent. I mean, everybody understands that, but it's not that easy. And I think what you're saying, and one thing that I've learned from you is, in order to attract and, more importantly, retain the talented ones you've attracted, there needs to be a really strong, compelling purpose. Is that what we're saying.

Caroline Winnett  

Yes.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, absolutely. I love that and so your purpose, your vision, all these MBA, things that you're like, here we go again, folks, this matters. This really matters. So you may know it and so you know what you want, stating your purpose is not for you. You obviously have that inherent in your soul. You're the founder, it's attracting other people to support you in what you want. And so communicating that in a very compelling way, and not saying we're going to go make returns for our investors. I mean, sure, yes, do that if you have investors, but a compelling purpose for top talent saying, upgrade human like mine. We're going to upgrade humanity. We're going to facilitate in the rise of the rest, no more people left behind like this mission of this show is to democratize that. You know, it reminds me of a study on purpose, and maybe we can close out on this, a friend of mine told me about this study where they did a study where you would come in and you would just do any drawing, and you would hand this drawing to the researcher, and they would pay you, I don't know, 20 bucks, so you could draw a line across the paper, hand it in, you get 20 bucks. Everyone's like, this is great and eventually, part way through this program, same thing, draw a picture, hand it to the researcher, get your 20 bucks. But then the researchers would crumple up the drawing in front of them and throw it in the garbage and then they started testing like, how does that make you feel? And so, mean, right, picking on people like that. Well, how could they do that? But what they discovered, in all seriousness, is that people didn't think it was a very good idea or very good deal anymore. Why, you're still drawing, you're still getting paid, but the only thing that changed was you actually saw the person who pay you throw your work in the garbage. And I don't know what it is, but what they found within us, or the thesis coming back, was it is very hard to even the money doesn't matter anymore when you feel like your work has no purpose. So I just produced something for you, even if there's a line across a paper, I did what you asked and it's just thrown in the garbage. So the money wasn't the reward, it was the fact that you felt like your work was doing something for someone else, or there was some purpose of you taking time out of your day that went over and above money, and this is what and I've seen it. I've been around I've been an employer, and an employee is that when you're at a place and you're an A player, and you no longer know that your work matters or that you matter, you're going to ask for a raise, thinking that that's going to satisfy this gap that you're feeling. But I'm telling you, folks, that's not it. What the gap you're feeling is not a lack of pay maybe. I mean, every situation is unique, I know I sound like a lawyer, but really, I think what's happening is, if you want to retain people, yes, obviously pay them, but let them know that you're not throwing their work in the garbage, that when they come and slave away, for lack of a better term for your vision, that it means something.

Caroline Winnett  

That it has value. 

Ryan Miller  

It has value.

Caroline Winnett  

Has value and value is money is an expression of value, right? 

Ryan Miller  

Ya, ya.

Caroline Winnett  

If you're paying you, they value it. But it's so important that that expression of value comes not just from a transaction.

Ryan Miller  

Exactly.

Caroline Winnett  

Comes from a human expression of value. So that's why, you know, when your friend invites you for dinner, the last thing they're going to do is ask you, you know, unless you know they arranged the last thing I'm going to invite your friend for dinner. At the end dinner say, well, here's the bill, because that turns it into a transaction. Or, you know, I'm not going to have a friend come over and offer me money for the dinner, right? It so, understanding.

Ryan Miller  

It's part of that.

Caroline Winnett  

How to convey that someone is meaningful to you, not just through money, is really important part of a founder. And even though you know, founders are all they're working so hard and they're running a million miles a minute, but they need to take some time regularly to express to all of the people who are working for them, helping them, with this great vision they have, that they value that person and what they're doing for them.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, and for those of you who are founders or leading companies, or maybe you're a leader in your company, you got to tell them you. It's okay, I know as a man, I could tell you that sometimes we were taught this idea that you can never look weak and showing gratitude. Is now man, people respect you for being a little bit vulnerable. You know, I mean, be yourself for those who are listening. But I think it's important to not just feel that appreciation inside of your nervous system, but make sure that they feel the appreciation from you, that you take a moment to appreciate those people that work for you. I love that. So a compelling purpose is a key to attracting and retaining talent, make sure that they feel like their A player efforts are moving the needle big time, and you're just you couldn't be happier to have them there. So I love that. So as we wrap things up, is there any final remarks, anything you'd like to say? Any ways to reach out or learn more? Anything at all? 

Caroline Winnett  

Yeah, so we love to hear from founders, please apply to SkyDeck. When applications are open, we're open to anybody, anywhere. Just go to skydeck.berkeley.edu, and you'll find out everything that you need to know. 

Ryan Miller  

Okay, perfect. So as we wrap things up, just focus on founders, right, making sure that you have this in not in just slogan, but in actions. The other thing is, show that you care, be exceptionally good at delivering that tough talk and just support. Make sure that you can back up that you deliver on your promises, not just them, and then also make sure that you and your company are not only top talent, but everyone there understands the purpose, and that you take time out of your busy schedule to make sure that you appreciate those people who are taking a piece of their life to build your dreams. You do these things, and you too will be well on your way in your pursuit of Making Billions.

Ryan Miller  

Wow, what a show, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. Now, if you haven't done so already, be sure to leave a comment and review on new ideas and guests you want me to bring on for future episodes, plus, why don't you head over to YouTube and see extra takes while you get to know our guests even better. And make sure to come back for our next episode, where we dive even deeper into the people, the process and the perspectives of both investors and founders. Until then, my friends, stay hungry, focus on your goals and keep grinding towards your dream of Making Billions.